TerraWiki / DiscussionThere is DiscussionArchive ParLiament I started /TerraWiki on 18th Nov 2003. I copied content from /HoMe/MattisManzel/Talk here --MattisManzel WyboWiersma here, What a coincidence that you thought of that too! Of combining a wiki/logilogi and an e-parliament... I am at this moment reading your plans on your website and the idea of combining the collaborative knowledge of the wiki and an e-parliament is what I am striving for too. I have actually already registered the domain names webparliament.com and webparliament.org almost a year ago, and a few years ago I have already run a web parliament (closed it down then again due to the fact that I lost my trust in (direct) democracy as it functions under the current system of commercial media). With the points you make on eTerra I however strongly disagree. Especially the idea of increasing the weight of a vote depending on the amount of money one has in eTerra currency is shocking. My plan was to increase the weights of votes based on the behavior of the voter within LogiLogi, or the wiki equivalent. Making voting on ones contributions possible, and using - based on that - a (not yet fully thought out) complex rating system, to ensure that the best informed and the wisest persons get the biggest votes. That will combine the advantages of democracy, and meritocracy in one system, which then would be based on the real merits: That is wise decisions, instead of decisions fuelled by interest in money. On the long run it also could come to include a place for an artificial intelligence system. I know it is naive. And maybe I am rating the power of thoughts above that of things at this moment, but according to me the real problems in the world have not much to do with the instability of currencies, but rather with the system of money, profits itself. That can be called human nature, and there will probably be no easy alternative - so don't think of me as a full blown communist. Ho Wybo! It feels good to me to be replied to in this way, thank you. Having registered the domains is a little of a beginning, having tried it once, having failed, and retrying it is a lot more. Maybe it was too early, maybe you made mistakes? Whatever – the probability for a successful direct democracy didn’t diminish in the meantime. It might still be too early, but it might as well not. The possibillity for establishing a direct democracy surely has not dimished. However that does not make some doubts about the effects that sutch a system could have on the quality of the decisions made, less pressing. I will discuss these problems and some suggestions for their solutions as soon as you have created the separate section for the /WebParliament-pages, as I've suggested in the following part of my reply. I agree on the fact that a combination of possession and weight of voice is shocking, simply spoken it’s bullshit. The text on http://www.terrahome.net.tc is mostly unchanged since July 03. I wrote it and roughly translated it in two weeks. I immediately presented it in newsgroups. That’s when I first heard about wiki, and eversince I’m almost exclusively around in wikiland, where I get reactions and contribute. Wiki is one big organism to me. When I wrote terrahome, there was nothing but a strong vision and very few concrete ways to apply it. Spitting out a strong vision means crap as a side effect. I simply didn’t take the time yet or didn’t have the time yet to work on terrahome eversince July. Best would be to completely transfere it on a wiki and edit it together. I might do this here. This wiki is comfortable, visit counter features are cool, the many languages for the program window to choose are great as well. No good though is editing as the window is too slim and the line break doesn't work. Or maybe I have to change my preferences somewhere? Would be nice if that could be done here... In any case the topic is very welcome, and I will provide my full cooperation and participation to make it work... You may create a separate section for it under the main page, using a name you consider fit for the topic (/DirectDemocracy, or /WebParliament would be my suggestions for a name). So, I agree on a wisdom- and knowledge-based complex voting system, but let people develop this themselves. Time might be short and expectations high, I agree. But what we are facing here is a pedagogic problem. This is a brand-new baby, a pretty big one. It’s adult intelligent cells still have to learn, how to act together. Therefore it wants to play. It needs a chain of colorful wooden stars spanned in front of its cradle to learn how to grab. My attempts for multilingual communication could lead into such a childish game, a global communication mob, that the new being can peacefully learn in and try out its potentials. “Fun” is the magic word, I guess. “Direct democracy” is good as well, but “fun” is better, as only “fun” will lead into “direct democracy”. Not the other way around. This is entirely voluntary here. Thanks for your fine welcome. What you say on play, and fun is true, it must evolve, change, and grow. But I think that these wooden stars should be made somewhere, some time, by someone... A woodcutter is needed to provide the stars... even if they're certainly nothing compared to the real stars that will be visited by "the brand new baby" once it approaches maturity... I do not pretend that the combined LogiLogi / WebParliament has to become THE place, or THE system. It could be just some start... Ciào MattisManzel http://wikifeatures.wiki.taoriver.net/moin.cgi/AutomaticTranslation The idea of showing the original besides the textbox in which it should be translated is great... I will implement it that way in LogiLogi as soon as I have time again. Automatic translation however is a little bit more difficult, as I've seen how (not!) far research is in that field at this moment (At the RuG machine translation is one of the main fields of research done by Alfa-Informatica). I would rather suggest adding something like http://lookwayup.com/ for easy lookup of unknown words on the translate page. Step by step is the basic rule for running, it? I use Babylon h ttp://www.babylon.com now, a comercial tool (therefore the broken link), the nessecary dictionaries loaded on my computer. Shift-rightclick over the word, and it immeadiately shows me the translation (from english) in German, Swedish Italian, English-English, English Slang, Computer terms akronyms and the britannica! This would be a good sufficient tool for a beginning, oh yes. It's just great to see you ambitious on it. On meatball the are soo sure it can't work ... http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?MultilingualGlobalCommunicationWiki
Maybe stupid. Terrawiki (Latin-Hawaian)
One essential question Wybo. Wiki, as a platform is pretty perfectly anarchic. There is one little beauty spot: the admin. He's more powerful than everybody. To make in work all must have the same starting "pole-position". That mean we have to develop a fair and working way to administrate commonly - possible task for the TerraWiki/Parliament. Are you willing to pass over your administator right to "the people" when the time has come?
I proposed a discussion and an implementation of a terrawiki on http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/community-de?MattisManzel as well. I think it's petty wise to say that this here doesn't have to be THE place. I'm pretty sure it will not, but it could be an important beginning, THE place should be decentralized. Every Computer carries a bit of the whole, you can't swich it off unless you switch of all computers running it. Like freenet. It doesn't need the encryption of freenet though.
I'm improvising on multilingual wiki software with Mr.van Dam on http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/MultiLingualWiki have a nice day The editing window is still slim, the line breaks though work now, which was the main annoyance. Thanks. --MattisManzel |
MenuList
